Love the sinner hate the sin

24 11 2010

Every God fearing Christian has surely heard these words.

I don’t think there is anything that irritates me more than this line, especially when used on gay people. It’s like saying “we don’t hate you we just hate the act.” Like being gay is only about sex. (But I knew I was gay even before I ever had sex with a woman!)

Every other aspect of the relationship – the love, the sharing, the emotions

and the caring are all discounted. To me it’s like saying its ok to be Sri Lankan but don’t behave like one! So don’t eat with your fingers, and don’t drink tea with three spoons of sugar in it. It’s not a separate thing: to be and behave. How can it be? It’s just the patronizing attitude of people who haven’t experienced certain situations or emotions in their lives.

I just read the story of an Irish Catholic priest who was has been banned by the Vatican from publishing any more of his writings after he suggested that homosexuality was “simply a facet of the human condition”, and that same-sex attraction and acts have been a consistent feature of human life. The Church says it’s “not wrong to be gay but it is wrong to act gay”.

Can someone please tell me how the fuck I can separate the two?

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8 responses

24 11 2010
David

Yes, I absolutely can. There are many aspects of your life. There’s your job, your faith, your wealth, your sex (M or F), your person, your sexual identity, just to name some. Depending on the situation, you identify yourself. If you like watching a sport, you’re a fan of that sport, if you’re Catholic, you identify yourself as such. But, for instance, while I am Catholic, male and ‘straight’, I don’t identify myself that way. Homosexuals do tend to identify themselves when they say “I’m gay.” Catholics do not identify people by what they do, hence, “love the sinner, hate the sin.” Jesus told us not to judge others by what they do. Who, but God, knows your heart? Jesus also told us not to hate others, to love even our enemies. This love is agape love, not eros love. So, if I’m a parent, and my child does something wrong, like stealing from a friend or bullying someone, does it mean I don’t love him because I punish him for what he did? Do I love the sinner while hating the sin?
So, as an American, I’m supposed to love even Hitler or Obama, or Osama Bin Laden. That doesn’t mean I approve of Hitler’s Nazi death camps, or bin Laden’s attack on the US. In the same way, I don’t have to encourage you in your homosexuality. God tells us that sex outside of marriage, which is between a man and a woman, does not conform to his creation.
At any rate, I am to give you the dignity you have as a human being.
I hope that helps. God bless.

28 11 2010
Vak

i don’t think anyone forgets that being able to choose who we love is only one part of our being. the reason gay and lesbian people “identify themselves”, as you say it, is because that part of the identity is the one which is being questioned. in a world or place where being ‘catholic, male and straight’ is abnormal or weird, then you might find that that part of your identity stands out for you. it is a common human phenomenon, and we can see this in other kinds of identities, as any armenian migrant in the west or many native american people would attest. it stops when that identity is not contested. so, ironically, it is only when you stop judging and dignity is given automatically and not because it has to be given, that the identifying will stop.

29 11 2010
David

Actually, you sexuality only involves you and those you have sex with. So if put that where it belongs, it’s nobody’s business. I don’t contest your ability to have sex with your own sex, if you want to. That’s not my business. It is my business to tell people, in general, that homosexual sex is immoral in the eyes of God. For your information, there are many who are attracted to the same sex who choose by their will not to engage in that behavior. Those are called same-sex attracted. That’s how they were born, and that’s what they are. To go down that road to acting on your physical desires is a choice you make. If it makes any difference to you, I’m equally against sex outside of marriage. So ‘same-sex attraction’ is what you’re born with, same as skin color or the like. It’s what you are, and can’t be changed. How you act is your choice. And those can be moral or immoral, objectively.

25 11 2010
pp

to me it sounds more like david is giving condescension, not dignity.

the “love the sinner hate the sin” line applied to gays implies that being gay is somehow “wrong” no. like they’re a flock of lost sheep waiting to be saved by the god fearing good christians. nonsense. but then, i find that particular kind of christians – the god fearing, good kind – deal in nonsense a lot. best ignore.

29 11 2010
David

Wrong, because I acknowledge myself equally sinful. Your idea that being gay is wrong is…wrong. BEING gay is not wrong. Acting on your gayness is, and so is hetero sex outside of marriage. We’re all ‘lost sheep’, whether you accept it or not, and it’s God who saves, not us.

Put it like this. If you were doing drugs and it was hurting your family, and I could make a statement to you that hit you in the right place and changed you to the point where you might stop doing it, shouldn’t I? Or should I just write you off as another drug addict, and let you kill yourself? Or should I say ‘it’s not going to change anything, I’ll just shut up’? Jesus tells me I’m supposed to do everything I can to make a difference, to help someone out of his problem. He would not want us to just be ‘in your face’ and derisive, but to offer help. In the same way, by showing someone who has sexual immorality, whether homo or hetero, the way God wants, gently and sincerely, we’re doing what Jesus taught.
I don’t look down on homosexuals, or drug addicts, or those with any other behavior problem, because there, but for the grace of God, go I. I did have addictions that I was able to overcome with God’s grace, and people around me. I got past them. I’m not superior because I overcame them, either, because I didn’t do it on my own. God gave me the strength.
But go ahead, just ignore.

25 11 2010
MK

I love my God, my God loves me, who are you to judge???? He created me in his own image, is what I truly believe. How many straight people out there eat shellfish???? How many of you work on a Sabbath day??? So please, don’t go calling me the sinner.

29 11 2010
David

Not judging you at all, other than to acknowledge that you’re human. Humans are sinful. You’re right, God does love you. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t want you to change. He wants me to change too, but he loves me.
Why is eating shellfish wrong? Or working on Sunday? Jesus did. Both. If it’s good enough for Him, it’s good enough for me.

27 11 2010
Natalie

You can’t separate them, it’s ridiculous. I ditched religion over 20 years ago and am exceedingly glad I did, but that’s what works for me. (I believe in freedom of religion but separation of church and state!) There are some churches out there that don’t view homosexuality as a sin, but they appear to be few and far between. As for the Catholic faith, to which I used to belong, puh-lease! How many gay priests are there? How many child-molesting priests are there (gay and straight)? They have no right to judge others when they can’t even keep their own house in order!

“Hate the sin and love the sinner”… applied to gays and lesbians, it’s just condescending pap.

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